11:32:00 <djmitche> #startmeeting weekly
11:32:00 <djmitche> it is now -- just wrapped up another meeting
11:32:00 <djmitche> #topic agenda
11:32:00 <djmitche> https://titanpad.com/buildbot-agenda
11:32:00 <infobob> http://paste.pound-python.org/show/yIL6y8ERZTeow3pHL3YC/ (repasted for djmitche)
11:32:00 <bb-github> [buildbot] tardyp commented on pull request #1909 b43d911: we don't need builder.builds, so this is really a getBuilds http://git.io/vlDFl
11:32:00 <djmitche> Please add to that as we go along if you want to bring anything up
11:33:00 <bb-github> [buildbot] tardyp commented on issue #1909: otherwise, looks good!... http://git.io/vlDFV
11:33:00 <djmitche> #topic irc reporter
11:33:00 <djmitche> http://trac.buildbot.net/ticket/2714
11:33:00 <tardyp> jaredgrubb: there?
11:34:00 <djmitche> I saw some commentary on the bug.  I think we can probably just close out #2714 and do the intermediary bugs?
11:34:00 <jaredgrubb> yes im here
11:34:00 <djmitche> good idea to break them down btw
11:34:00 <tardyp> I created two remaining work bugs
11:34:00 <tardyp> under the irc tag
11:34:00 <jaredgrubb> yeh your PR covered most of the issues i think
11:34:00 <tardyp> I wanted to close 2714 which is nine blocker
11:34:00 <tardyp> not sure if I forgot one
11:35:00 <jaredgrubb> yes i think that's fair
11:35:00 <bb-trac> [trac] #2714/task (closed) updated by dustin (empty comment) http://trac.buildbot.net/ticket/2714
11:35:00 <djmitche> <-- man of action :)
11:36:00 <djmitche> ok
11:36:00 <tardyp> yeah!
11:36:00 <jaredgrubb> :)
11:36:00 <tardyp> one less
11:36:00 <djmitche> on to the main attraction
11:36:00 <djmitche> #topic MOSS application
11:36:00 <djmitche> http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.buildbot.devel
11:36:00 <djmitche> https://wiki.mozilla.org/MOSS
11:36:00 <tardyp> also related topic, is how we spend the gsoc money
11:36:00 <djmitche> good point
11:36:00 <tardyp> I guess we got a bunch of it this year, right?
11:37:00 <djmitche> #info also got $2000 (I think?) in GSoC funding this eyar
11:37:00 <tardyp> djmitche: do you have an idea of the level of our cash treasure?
11:37:00 <tardyp> isn't it $2000 per student?
11:38:00 <djmitche> I think it's $500/student
11:38:00 <djmitche> http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2015/help_page#1._How_do_payments_work
11:38:00 <djmitche> so four successful students -> $2000
11:39:00 <djmitche> I think we have around $5000, but I don't have an accurate figure
11:39:00 <djmitche> so, in general, we have funds and we could certainly apply to Mozilla for additional funds
11:39:00 <tardyp> ok, so its not really something that can fund any serious developement
11:40:00 <djmitche> not at the moment, no
11:40:00 <djmitche> that was what slowed down plans to pay for bounties
11:40:00 <jaredgrubb> On a related note: I cant find any link for how to donate to buildbot
11:40:00 <tardyp> so, for me the main problem is to find people interrested in getting paid for doing buildbot work, basically freelancers
11:41:00 <bdbaddog> (raises hand).. I'm a freelancer.
11:41:00 <tardyp> freelancers that know twisted
11:41:00 <djmitche> jaredgrubb: http://trac.buildbot.net/
11:41:00 <tardyp> bdbaddog: cool!
11:41:00 <bdbaddog> Though my twisted exposure has been only through BB.
11:41:00 <djmitche> heh, well, that happens to be exactly what we need ;)
11:41:00 <jaredgrubb> on trac? That is buried pretty deep! I looked all over SFC site and it sent me to BB, but then couldnt find anything on the buildbot page
11:42:00 <djmitche> jaredgrubb: it's right on that front page
11:42:00 <djmitche> hmm
11:42:00 <djmitche> should add something to www too
11:43:00 <bdbaddog> I think there was a previous discussion about moving to www and there was some pushback? (or am I mis-remembering)
11:43:00 <djmitche> #action djmitche to add more donation links - www, bigger on Trac, perhaps on docs too
11:43:00 <jaredgrubb> yes, i see it on trac, but it should be findable from www
11:43:00 <bdbaddog> +1 on www
11:43:00 <djmitche> I think I wanted to avoid asking for money from people who were still wondering "what is this Buildbot thing and should I use it"
11:43:00 <djmitche> but it can be done
11:44:00 <djmitche> so back to MOSS & spending money
11:44:00 <djmitche> supporting development seems like a popular option
11:44:00 <jaredgrubb> (it could be a sublink under "Get Involved")
11:45:00 <bdbaddog> probably worth considering three types of items:
11:45:00 <bdbaddog> 1) supporting targetted development
11:45:00 <bdbaddog> 2) handling bug triage/simple bug fixes/bugs which are getting no love
11:45:00 <bdbaddog> 3) bug bountys?
11:45:00 <tardyp> I like the bug bounty
11:46:00 <tardyp> it allows to focus the budget on things that people care about
11:46:00 <tardyp> but cannot resolve technically alone
11:46:00 <djmitche> agreed
11:46:00 <djmitche> how do we administer that?
11:47:00 <tardyp> even if people give $1, this is still a proof that feature is useful to them
11:47:00 <djmitche> a kind of voting, yes
11:47:00 <tardyp> verm__: there? do you know if trac has a bounty plugin?
11:48:00 <bdbaddog> then some kind of matching for the $ votes on bugs?
11:48:00 <djmitche> I don't think he's around, but we can look
11:48:00 <djmitche> bdbaddog: that sounds cool
11:49:00 <bdbaddog> just have to figure out what the match is, and/or I guess what's a "fair" hourly rate for work, which could help with figuring out a match formula
11:50:00 <djmitche> this sounds complicated :)
11:50:00 <djmitche> is there a way we could get started simply?
11:50:00 <bdbaddog> :) yeah.. probably
11:50:00 <bdbaddog> just pick a multiple? 10x ?
11:51:00 <bdbaddog> how would such funds be disbursed?
11:51:00 <djmitche> makes sense -- so someone (who?) pledges $10 for a bug and it's matche dup to $100
11:51:00 <bdbaddog> yup.
11:51:00 <bdbaddog> maybe with some cap?
11:51:00 <djmitche> We can work that out with SFC -- I think the pledge would have to include a $10 donation, and then we'd have SFC send a check for $110
11:51:00 <djmitche> yeah
11:51:00 <djmitche> there will be issues with some international payments, I'm sure
11:52:00 <bdbaddog> And I guess we'd need to discount any donates made by the person claiming the bug bounty
11:52:00 <djmitche> yeah there's an opportunity for fraud there :/
11:52:00 <djmitche> but it would be visible -- don't solve a bug you pledged
11:53:00 <bdbaddog> well I think it's fair to fix the bug you pledged, but not for your pledge to be affected by multiple, and maybe that pledge goes to BB general fund?
11:53:00 <jaredgrubb> maybe we just match directly .. if someone wants to spend $50 to make $50, we get a bug done for $50 which is still a win
11:54:00 <djmitche> true
11:54:00 <djmitche> that works -- even match
11:54:00 <tardyp> $50 doesn't feed a freelancer..
11:54:00 <bdbaddog> you could launder money that way.. ;)
11:55:00 <tardyp> https://www.bountysource.com/issues/27934335-loading
11:55:00 <tardyp> bounty for irc authz bug
11:55:00 <tardyp> has simple trac integration
11:56:00 <djmitche> huh, that's pretty cool
11:56:00 <djmitche> I think the idea is for the market to set the prices
11:56:00 <djmitche> so if $50 is too little for a hard bug, it won't get done, and maybe another $100 gets pledged and it becomes worthwhile
11:56:00 <Void__> not related, but maybe a better README can be useful, with link to trac and documentation
11:56:00 <jaredgrubb> would having us seed $20 across 50 bugs be a motivator at all? would anyone fix a bug for $20?
11:56:00 <Void__> it was quite disturbing for me to see no "issues" section on the github repo
11:57:00 <djmitche> jaredgrubb: students might
11:57:00 <tardyp> then the question is how this can work with MOSS
11:57:00 <djmitche> Void__: that's a good idea
11:57:00 <cato> jaredgrubb: it might increase the will to submit the patch
11:57:00 <djmitche> Void__: if you have a minute, can you make a PR?
11:57:00 <tardyp> MOSS could be a multiplier for bounties
11:58:00 <jaredgrubb> if bugs have an initial seed, it might make it feel more legit to a contributor… people might be willing to put $10 on a bug that already has money
11:58:00 <djmitche> #info (read the transcript of this interesting discussion for details)
11:58:00 <djmitche> agreed
11:59:00 <bdbaddog> so does this cover all 3 items then?
11:59:00 <bdbaddog> also I guess how much to ask for?
11:59:00 <tardyp> I think this is not how much we ask
11:59:00 <bdbaddog> Do we know if mozilla has any outstanding bugs?
11:59:00 <tardyp> its if we get selected, we get $100k
12:00:00 <djmitche> bdbaddog: we don't, no :(
12:00:00 <djmitche> actually, edunham may have some
12:00:00 <djmitche> releng doesn't
12:00:00 <tardyp> how we can do taskcluster in buildbot?
12:00:00 <bdbaddog> nope. no $100k.
12:00:00 <bdbaddog> I•IGrant requests should be for the amount of financial support that helps accomplish a clear and current project goal. Projects that don’t have a need for funds at this time can be considered when such a need arises. A $10,000 grant request is just as valid as a $50,000 or $100,000 request.
12:01:00 <tardyp> a good to know
12:01:00 <djmitche> #info settled on attaching bounties to bugs
12:01:00 <djmitche> #info with buildbot matching donated bounties
12:01:00 <bdbaddog> fyi djmitche: I•IThe Mozillian champion may be (but does not need to be) a project contributor to the project they are championing.
12:01:00 <djmitche> oh, that's good to know
12:02:00 <Void__> djmitche: sure, tomorrow probably
12:02:00 <djmitche> thanks!
12:02:00 <tardyp> so bdbaddog I think you volunteer to formulate a proposal for us?
12:02:00 <bdbaddog> Sure. I will do. Just trying to nail down the details.
12:02:00 <djmitche> we should probably start small; if we're successful we can return for more
12:02:00 <tardyp> agreed
12:03:00 <tardyp> start $10k
12:03:00 <tardyp> with a list of bugs that might be useful to mozilla
12:03:00 <djmitche> ++
12:03:00 <tardyp> djmitche: do you know if moz has any CI appart from firefox CI
12:04:00 <tardyp> for other side projects?
12:04:00 <djmitche> tardyp: yes, Mozilla Resarch uses Buildbot to do things like rust and servo
12:04:00 <tardyp> or side tools, etc
12:04:00 <djmitche> there are a bunch of Jenkins installations too
12:04:00 <djmitche> for various bits of QA etc.
12:04:00 <djmitche> and webdev uses a lot of jenkins
12:05:00 <tardyp> perhaps bdbaddog can make a small pool on those CI users to ask what would be their needs
12:05:00 <bdbaddog> Would funding something like a buildbot builder be worthwhile?
12:05:00 <djmitche> what would that mean?
12:06:00 <bdbaddog> some wizard to walk through setting up a build?  (which as far as I know is one of the perceived advantages of jenkins ci)
12:06:00 <tardyp> I mean send a google form to those mozillers to get their feedback on what they think is missing in buildbot (or jenkins) that would help their work
12:06:00 <bdbaddog> make doing something simple very simple
12:06:00 <bdbaddog> probably  web based
12:07:00 <djmitche> That might be good in general
12:07:00 <djmitche> I suspect that many of the Mozilla uses are actually looking for more complex stuff
12:07:00 <djmitche> tie-ins with Buildbot PRs for example
12:07:00 <bdbaddog> sure.  maybe not a direct benefit to mozilla.
12:07:00 <djmitche> *Github
17:25:06 * Github 
12:08:00 <tardyp> I think making a proposal based on feedbacks from mozilla employees is a must to proof that this funding will help moz
12:08:00 <bdbaddog> o.k. so how do we identify who those people are
12:08:00 <djmitche> bdbaddog: I'll introduce you to the one I know about
12:08:00 <tardyp> I'd guess we can use our spy..
12:08:00 <bdbaddog> o.k. great.
12:09:00 <djmitche> haha
12:09:00 <djmitche> OK, so back to bounties in general
12:09:00 <djmitche> should we try to use bountysource?
12:10:00 <bdbaddog> free to use. 10% charge to withdraw
12:10:00 <djmitche> I'm a little scared because when money's involved, "oops, sorry" becomes much less effective
12:10:00 <djmitche> OK
12:11:00 <djmitche> so let me spend some time this week getting up to speed on bountysource and sharing what I learn on devel@
12:11:00 <djmitche> and also get in touch with SFC about it
12:11:00 <djmitche> do they have some feature to handle matching?
12:12:00 <bdbaddog> not in their FAW
12:12:00 <bdbaddog> FAQ
12:12:00 <djmitche> ok
12:12:00 <djmitche> I'll see if I can figure out how to do that
12:12:00 <djmitche> it would be good to have the match visible!
12:13:00 <djmitche> (rather than a hidden "and we'll send a check for the same amount on completion")
12:13:00 <djmitche> #action djmitche to learn about bountysource
12:13:00 <djmitche> #action djmitche to talk to SFC about bounties
12:13:00 <djmitche> OK, time's running a little long
12:14:00 <djmitche> #action bdbaddog to prepare MOSS application
12:14:00 <djmitche> anything else for this topic?
12:14:00 <tardyp> no
12:14:00 <djmitche> #topic nine update
12:15:00 <djmitche> We just closed one nine bug -- any other news?
12:15:00 * djmitche thinks "no"
12:15:00 <djmitche> any other business?
12:16:00 <bdbaddog> none from me.
12:16:00 <jaredgrubb> i did want to mention GSoC mentor summit this weekend
12:16:00 <jaredgrubb> if anyone has something they want me to do/ask/see, let me know
12:17:00 <djmitche> jaredgrubb: maybe talk to other orgs about bounties and MOSS?
12:17:00 <jaredgrubb> sure
12:17:00 <djmitche> it'd be interesting to know what else is going on and/or get ideas
12:17:00 <djmitche> have fun!!
12:16:00 <djmitche> #endmeeting