16:00:23 <djmitche> #startmeeting weekly
16:00:23 <bb-supy> Meeting started Tue Sep  4 16:00:23 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is djmitche. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:23 <bb-supy> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
16:00:23 <bb-supy> The meeting name has been set to 'weekly'
16:00:29 <djmitche> #topic Introduction
16:00:31 <djmitche> Hi everyone!
16:00:33 <bdbaddog> Here!
16:00:40 <djmitche> http://bit.ly/2rup31x <-- agenda
16:00:53 <bdbaddog> gotit
16:01:14 <djmitche> #topic Week in Review
16:01:21 <djmitche> uhoh, tardyp's not in channel
16:02:42 <tardyp> djmitche:  looks like irccloud has been disconnecting
16:02:47 <tardyp> aren't we tuesday?
16:02:49 <djmitche> ah, wb :)
16:02:51 <djmitche> we are!
16:02:58 <djmitche> isn't today tuesday?
16:03:13 <djmitche> I just do what Google Calendar tells me to do
16:03:17 <tardyp> it is
16:03:24 <djmitche> #info 1.4.0 is released!
16:03:35 <djmitche> looks like some PRs about inlineCallbacks?
16:03:40 <tardyp> I don't have the IRC logs, so I wasn't sure meeting was started
16:04:11 <tardyp> lots of PRs about removing the @d.addCallback -> def check
16:04:20 <tardyp> and replacing that by inlineCallbacks
16:04:46 <djmitche> ah, great
16:04:51 <djmitche> those were all some pretty old bits of code
16:05:11 <djmitche> #info updates from use of @d.addCallback decorators to @defer.inlineCallbacks with yields
16:05:20 <djmitche> anything else?
16:05:22 <rjarry> hello all
16:05:29 <tardyp> hey
16:05:40 <tardyp> rodrigc has been submitting a py3 dockerfile
16:06:03 <tardyp> so that our docker users can choose to use py3
16:06:08 <djmitche> hi rjarry  :)
16:06:16 <tardyp> and a first user reported a problem on likely uncovered code
16:06:36 <rodrigc> tardyp: do you want to eventually migrate to only offering Python3-based docker images from Dockerhub?
16:06:40 <djmitche> #info rodrigc adding py3 dockerfile, allowing use of Python 3 when running in a docker container
16:06:52 <djmitche> that sounds great to me rodrigc :)
16:06:59 <tardyp> rodrigc: indeed, that was my suggestion in the PR
16:07:14 <djmitche> awesome
16:07:16 <tardyp> but it looks like this was a good idea to first make it an option.
16:07:19 <djmitche> should we talk hardware?
16:07:37 <tardyp> do we have news on HW?
16:08:15 <bdbaddog> The power supply got paid for right?
16:08:16 <djmitche> #topic Hardware Repairs
16:08:23 <djmitche> yep, paid for and installed
16:08:28 <djmitche> there were some issues bringing the hardware up
16:08:35 <djmitche> I pinged Amar about it today, and he's going to get back on it
16:08:53 <djmitche> we don't want to just turn it on because it will claim the same IP addresses as jails on service2 are using
16:08:54 <tardyp> I tried to connect to service1 this weekend, and it didn't work
16:09:03 <djmitche> yeah, it's still not been brought up
16:09:04 <tardyp> but I actually wanted service2 (to update nine)
16:09:10 <djmitche> :)
16:09:34 <djmitche> so once service1 is back up we can rebuild a few jails there.
16:09:47 <tardyp> I still have disabled ansible cronjob on that machine because it was always rebooting the master at the bad time
16:09:48 <djmitche> #info Amar planning to work on bringing the host back up, with jails' IPs changed to avoid conflicts with running jails
16:10:13 <djmitche> graceful?
16:10:37 <tardyp> yes, and graceful is still not behaving perfectly
16:11:05 <djmitche> boo
16:11:16 <tardyp> :-(
16:11:26 <djmitche> other topics to address?
16:11:29 <tardyp> especially with the trigger builds generated by buildbot travis
16:12:23 <tardyp> no other topic from me
16:12:36 <tardyp> rjarry: are you updating debian?
16:12:51 <rjarry> tardyp: I pushed 1.4.0 to salsa today
16:13:00 <tardyp> cool
16:13:05 <djmitche> #topic Debian Packages
16:13:06 <rjarry> 1.3.0 has not been uploaded yet...
16:13:14 <djmitche> #info rjarry has pushed 1.4.0 to salsa
16:13:21 <tardyp> at least the packaging is correct, which is nice
16:13:21 <djmitche> is there any reason to at this potin?
16:13:39 <tardyp> as  I had to redo the deploy with circleci 2 I wasn't sure
16:13:46 <rjarry> I asked doko to upload both 1.3.0 and 1.4.0 to unstable
16:13:57 <rjarry> <doko> ok, I'll have a look later
16:14:11 <tardyp> 1 release per month is too fast for debian to keep up :)
16:14:14 <djmitche> haha
16:14:21 <djmitche> skipping a few doesn't hurt, right?
16:14:33 <rjarry> :)
16:14:40 <tardyp> that's fine
16:15:08 <rodrigc> tardyp: right now there seems to be only the Python 3 Docker image for 1.4.0 on Dockerhub: https://hub.docker.com/r/buildbot/buildbot-master/tags/.  Maybe there should be both Py2 and Py3
16:15:22 <djmitche> haha, done!
16:15:25 <rodrigc> for a transition period, then go for only py3
16:15:32 <tardyp> u
16:15:40 <tardyp> indeed, I overlooked that
16:16:45 <tardyp> but there are two builds for worker
16:16:54 <tardyp> so probably I hit the button twice..
16:16:57 <rodrigc> there are still a few corners on py3 that need to be fixed.  In addition to the RemoteAuth, there is tryclient ( https://github.com/buildbot/buildbot/pull/4038 ), and I think also the Bitbucket request poller
16:17:41 <rodrigc> Python.org has been using Python 3 based buildbot (not the Docker image) for some months now, so things are pretty good on that front
16:18:11 <tardyp> yeah
16:18:14 <djmitche> #topic Python 3 support
16:18:21 <rodrigc> I didn't want to raise it before, because it is controversial
16:18:50 <djmitche> #info Python 3 support is used in production (at python.org at least)
16:18:53 <tardyp> well, now we start to have more and more libs abandon python2
16:18:55 <rodrigc> but at some point it might be worth discussing dropping Python 2.7 support.  Maintaining support for Python 2 and 3 is a "tax" which is a lot of work
16:19:05 <djmitche> #info there are a few lingering issues
16:19:05 <rjarry> +1
16:19:08 <tardyp> there are 25% of the collection data which says py3
16:19:08 <djmitche> ++
16:19:24 <rjarry> tardyp: we could encourage users to switch to python3
16:19:28 <djmitche> #info usage data indicates 25% use of Python 3
16:19:29 <tardyp> I agree as well
16:19:43 <djmitche> tardyp: what is the trend on that? like, when will it be at 50%?
16:19:49 <rodrigc> I would be even bolder to say at some point, Python 3.4 support should be dropped as well, so only Python 3.5+ is supported
16:19:58 <djmitche> that might be a good point to announce a deprecation schedule for py2 support
16:20:03 <bdbaddog> I've gotta punch out and head to airport. I'll review the rest of the meeting in the IRC logs.
16:20:07 <tardyp> as we probably have another 25% who run dockerfiles
16:20:07 <rjarry> rodrigc: and replace all yield with await ?
16:20:09 <djmitche> bdbaddog: thanks!!
16:20:18 <rodrigc> and I would even be bolder to suggest that at some point, it may be worth replacing @defer.inlineCallback with the Python native keywords for async /await
16:20:19 <tardyp> then we will go to 50% when we switch default docker to py3
16:20:19 <bdbaddog> BTW: I'm +1 on deprecatig 2.x and flooring at 3.5+
16:20:48 <djmitche> #info Some discussion of when we might deprecate or drop py2 support (and separately py3.4)
16:20:49 <rjarry> that was his last will :)
16:20:50 <tardyp> I love async await..
16:21:15 <rodrigc> but that is a lot to suggest, so I only want to make those as suggestions for now, so that they are in the meeting minutes
16:21:15 <djmitche> ++
16:21:48 <djmitche> proposal: when we reach 50%, figure out and announce a deprecation schedule
16:21:58 <djmitche> (sounds like that will be in 1-2mo)
16:22:00 <tardyp> the thing is that probably there are a lot of ppl who have python2 master.cfg
16:22:12 <rodrigc> the big victory for me was to help Zach Ware convert the python.org buildbot to Python 3.  that is one big visible project
16:22:23 <djmitche> we could give a fairly generous deprecation window, like 9mo or 1year
16:22:30 <rjarry> tardyp: there is 2to3.py
16:22:32 <djmitche> that's awesome rodrigc
16:22:35 <rodrigc> tardyp: yes, that is one side of master.cfg being straight Python code instead of a proprietary configuration language
16:22:46 <rodrigc> s/one side/down side/
16:22:58 <tardyp> yes
16:23:11 <tardyp> and people have huge master.cfg, split into lots of files.
16:23:18 <rodrigc> I can tell you right now based on my experience, there are codebases out there that will never migrate to Python 3
16:23:36 <tardyp> e.g https://bitbucket.org/scality/eve/
16:24:02 <rodrigc> so buildbot is at a crossroads of keeping up to date with the Python core language, and newer libraries, vs. users with older buildbot installations
16:24:22 <djmitche> rodrigc: but updating buildbot to use py3 is easier than updating the system under test to py3 :)
16:24:42 <rodrigc> djmitche: never assume anything.  I've done both :)
16:24:52 <djmitche> haha, well
16:25:16 <tardyp> we can keep python2 for worker, this is less of a problem
16:25:18 <djmitche> I only mean that saying "upgrade your buildbot to python 3" does not necessarily imply "upgrade your product to python 3"
16:25:19 <rodrigc> djmitche: for example, the master.cfg for the Twisted project is a huge pile of code.  That whole thing needs to be ported to python3
16:25:38 <rodrigc> djmitche: I'll agree with you on that
16:25:46 <tardyp> twisted buildbot is on nine?
16:25:51 <djmitche> yeah, it's definitely not easy :/
16:26:02 <rodrigc> no, Twisted buildbot is on 8
16:26:16 <tardyp> nope https://buildbot.twistedmatrix.com/
16:26:29 <tardyp> so probably the hardest will be nine transition
16:27:06 <djmitche> yuck
16:27:12 <rodrigc> yup.  probably there are many companies out there with proprietary workflows based on master.cfg
16:27:14 * djmitche going to wrap the meeting up here for time
16:27:22 <djmitche> but keep talking :)
16:27:24 <djmitche> #endmeeting