17:00:55 <djmitche> #startmeeting weekly
17:00:55 <bb-supy> Meeting started Tue Dec 11 17:00:55 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is djmitche. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:00:55 <bb-supy> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
17:00:55 <bb-supy> The meeting name has been set to 'weekly'
17:00:59 <djmitche> #topic Introduction
17:01:09 <djmitche> http://bit.ly/2rup31x
17:01:21 <djmitche> There's a 30-minute limit on this meeting, and everyone is welcome to participate
17:01:31 <djmitche> who else is around?
17:01:36 <skelly> here for the beginning
17:01:40 <tardyp> hello
17:03:26 <djmitche> yay!
17:03:32 <djmitche> #topic Week in Review
17:03:36 <djmitche> what's new?
17:04:11 <tardyp> Most of the discussion this week has been around python 2.7 deprecation
17:04:19 <djmitche> should we jump right to that?
17:04:54 <tardyp> well probably
17:05:13 <djmitche> #topic Python-2.7 deprecation
17:05:46 <tardyp> So we discussed previous time we need a way to warn our users that we will stop supporting 2.7
17:06:15 <tardyp> I've written a small patch so that a python2.7 master will warn at 'buildbot start'
17:06:37 <tardyp> rodrigc has started another patch to remove completly the support for 2.7
17:06:50 <djmitche> so the idea would be to warn for one minor version?
17:07:03 <tardyp> that was my proposal yes
17:07:17 <tardyp> the discussion would be for how much time we warn
17:07:30 <tardyp> numbers show that 70% of the base is python2.7 still
17:07:40 <djmitche> this is to replace an "LTS" release that still supports 2.7, right?
17:07:56 <tardyp> reason is probably that all our doc is defaulting to 2.7 python instead of python3
17:08:02 <djmitche> true!
17:08:22 <tardyp> yes, I guess we already decided to not got the LTS way
17:08:44 <nbjoerg> is there any noticable performance difference to highlight in such a release note?
17:09:14 <tardyp> python3 is a bit faster than python2, but probably not noticeable yet
17:09:19 <skelly> switching to async/await would be a performance improvement
17:09:21 <djmitche> good point
17:09:24 <tardyp> it will be more impactful when we move to async await
17:09:32 <tardyp> right
17:09:53 <tardyp> however, we never really measured any PoC on real cases
17:10:01 <tardyp> we only measured microbenchmarks
17:10:17 <djmitche> it sounds like we're not giving users an option, so I don't know how much we need to argue for py3
17:10:46 <djmitche> and, this is on the master only, iirc?
17:10:58 <tardyp> yes
17:10:59 <nbjoerg> djmitche: consider it as removing possible arguments against the switch
17:11:06 <djmitche> nbjoerg: true enough :)
17:11:12 <skelly> aside, it appears 3.7 is the first 3.x that is faster than 2.7
17:11:35 <djmitche> so, I don't see a *lot* of benefit to a warning
17:11:51 <djmitche> it's a slightly more effective way to inform users that they will need to switch in the future
17:11:58 <skelly> I think a warning is useful to inform that it's happening and people need to plan for migrating
17:12:04 <djmitche> so I guess they can fit it into their company process
17:12:05 <djmitche> yeah
17:12:14 <skelly> "warning" perhaps
17:12:34 <tardyp> so we just warn in the release note, and not in the code
17:12:45 <skelly> it's not "or else" but "limited resources and python2 is near to EoL"
17:12:45 <djmitche> we could put something friendly in the logging
17:13:12 <djmitche> something like "Hey, did you know the Buildbot master can run on Python-3.6 and higher?"
17:13:51 <djmitche> basically saying, this is a good time to migrate your *current* version of the master to py3, so the next major version bump will be less bumpy
17:14:29 <tardyp> https://github.com/buildbot/buildbot/pull/4469
17:14:36 <tardyp> that is basically what I said
17:15:30 <djmitche> I think just add a line suggesting upgrading Python now, and it will be perfect
17:15:41 <skelly> have to go; I have nothing to report on infra once you get there
17:15:48 * djmitche waves
17:15:51 <tardyp> bye
17:15:51 <djmitche> thanks for dropping by
17:16:57 <tardyp> ok, as per the date, rodrigc suggested to name a date rather than say during 2019
17:17:12 <djmitche> I like htat
17:17:14 <tardyp> he suggested June, but I think this is a bit late
17:17:41 <tardyp> I would rather say february
17:17:42 <djmitche> yeah, I think anything after March (so 3 months after winter holidays) would be fine
17:17:43 <djmitche> sure
17:17:52 * djmitche has very light opinions here
17:18:15 <djmitche> #info Will add a warning to next release of Buildbot indicating Python-2.7 EOL and suggesting running current BB version on Python-3
17:18:19 <tardyp> yeah, so that we put more incentive for people to upgrade
17:18:37 <tardyp> and then we watch the telemetry to see if people are actually upgrading
17:18:40 <djmitche> ++
17:19:12 <djmitche> so, February?
17:19:14 <tardyp> okay, lets do that
17:19:20 <djmitche> ok!
17:19:25 <tardyp> means two more releases
17:19:41 <djmitche> #agreed Planning for the February release (2 releases from now) to drop Python-2.7 support (master only)
17:20:09 <djmitche> it sounds like there's no new data on hardware repair or discourse.. anything else to discuss?
17:20:59 <tardyp> nope
17:21:27 <djmitche> ok!
17:21:39 <djmitche> I'm excited about this Python change :)
17:21:43 <djmitche> #endmeeting